Extremoduro’s Journal

This is the answer to a journal. As the author stated:

imzyklothym said:
Well... as I don't agree to the group's issue I didn't join and I don't want to annoy you, as well.
But there was enough matter for me to write a journal about it. As I concerns '(not) enjoying everything' you might be interested in reading (and commenting) it, so here goes the link: I don't like every kind of music!
I really appreciate some feedback!
If there was matter for you to start the journal, you must understand that also for me there was matter to write about it since I'm not only a member of the group you talk about but also who started it. So here is my first journal :)

(Intro, skip this if you want to start with the journal. And must also note that this journal takes some hours to read listening the examples etc. So if you are in a hurry, better come back later!)

First must apologize for the big delay answering but though I play more than 60 tracks per day through Last.fm, this happens while I work with the computer. So time I'm in the computer is far from free time for stuff as write here at Last.fm. And honestly, prefer to invest that free time with other stuff as my music research. Furthermore these things about “how do you feel about music?” “why do you feel in that way? etc” are hard to know harder to explain, and I'm really slow writing in English. Want to express well in this issue but is difficult and my English level is not that good, so had the journal in one half of the screen and wordreference in the other one :)
I mean that this discussion required a deep and long answer but couldn't take so much time each day so as the answer is longer the delay is bigger. First had some exams, then lot of work etc. Was taking too long and is not the way to write about it (few each day between all stress). So decided to print the discussion and leave it for later when I would find the time it deserves. Now I'm back :)
Hope all this is enough to apologize about delay :D

Also must note that the following is my opinion about the issue and in some parts will talk since the way I personally feel so text will look pretty egocentric (I...I...I). That's not because I think that my way to feel is “superior” (as people like Imzyklothym says) but because is the one I know better and can explain better from :P And this doesn't mean that members of “People who can enjoy ANY kind of music” share all my thoughts and feels. Each one is free to think whatever, to join the group or not to do. Quoted from description of group:

Here, NOT members have the same privileges as members. Yes, not members can also post in the forum. So please, join as a member only if you agree with the group (read the description).
So if they joined that's due they feel to fit in this group by some reason (and users kept joining after Imzyklothym's journal and Tsatthoggua's thread), but this doesn't mean that me and the rest of members share the same brain! :P

About the examples, yeah, don't worry kids, in this book there are pics! :D But don't look the pics, listen them ;) I give as example the music, not the videos. The Youtube videos are due most tracks don't have a full preview here at last.fm. They are just examples to explain better certain points in this music discussion.

Ok, here I go:

Hi, I'm the leader of the group you talk about ...and I'm not afraid to admit it! :D

Will start posting here the reply to the original post so all is answered in the same place. It will also be useful as basis for an answer to the journal. And after the reply will quote and answer the journal parts that weren't yet.

Imzyklothym's original post:

imzyklothym said:
Indeed!
I listen to very many different kinds of music but I'd never say I listen to ANY kind of music, because I don't. And I don't believe that anyone does as well.
How can you?
I think a lot of people just pretend to like any music genre because they think they are better than others then...
Good question!

hehe, of course there is music that sounds like ASS in every genre, but you can't judge a whole genre just because listening few tracks or artists.

Anyway let's guess that you listened most of what a subgenre can offer to your ears...

The fact is that every music genre and subgenre have their fans/followers. Why? There is always a part of music that they enjoy and maybe you don't:
Virtuoso light-speed solos that makes you say 'wow' (not only guitar, but violin, drums, saxo, turntables, piano,... whatever you can think), rhythm of beats that makes you move parts of you or even your whole body (aka dance :P), sublime choirs, the calm after the storm (for example music breaks between fast noisy parts), emotional melodies, brutal and apocalyptic music, trapping easy to follow refrains, beautiful mellow slow-coustic songs that makes you forget about the mad busy life to live a peaceful slow-motion moment or just close your eyes and dream without falling sleep, moving heart and ground shaking loud low sounds, melancholy pieces, the progression of sound during the duration of track, angelic clear voices, deep low ones, powerful strong “soul-full” or a wide range of them, new ways to feel with the experimentation of new sounds and effects, music bursts, an atmosphere that makes you travel to different places and ages (very noticeable at music as trip-hop and chillout), the combination of some of these aspects or the contrast between them (such as sublime choirs meeting devasting apocalyptic music to result in Symphonic Gothic Doom Metal or the contrast between different parts of Post-Rock pieces, etc)

For example I think Extrawelt - Soopertrack is a good example of both progression and heart moving lows. Won't put an example for each because I will never end, but if you want for some of these, let me know.

All these elements makes you enjoy the music and feel in different ways: makes you shudder, dream, cry, love, dance, shout, or well... maybe often feel in a more “moderate” way.

And people listening one genre to feel in one way maybe don't know they can feel in a similar way listening a completely different genre.

So for example these tracks in different genres may produce a similar feel when hearing it:

- Amon Tobin - Esther's
- A Fire Inside - Total Immortal
- Nightwish - End of All Hope
- Joe Satriani - Big Bad Moon
- Demons and Wizards - Terror Train
- The Flashbulb - The Big Orange Love ... :/ can't find a place where to listen it...
- The Raveonettes - Beat City
- Dying Fetus - Homicidal Retribution
- viznut/pwp - Robotic Warrior ... With the sounds of a Commodore Vic-20! :D
- :Wumpscut: - Rush

An important element is the context they are into. Violence context, night-life, Road Rush, Repulsion / Desesperation, Freak Commodore Vic-20 scene, ... Although they are pretty different tracks, they share some elements in common -speed, volume, complexity,...- that for most people will result in adrenaline rushes. And remember that we left the prejudices appart (check group's description) so the adrenaline rush I feel is not against ethic principles/religion, against the system, etc Of course they will still sound different with different atmospheres, but in some way they get closer.

Esther's, The Big Orange Love, Beat City,... of course I have taste and enjoy some of them more than the others. But yes, I like all that stuff so feel free to ignore that people even enjoys things you don't... erm sorry, I mean feel free to criticize my taste ;) There is not 2 persons in the whole world with exactly the same taste, that's a fact. So feel free to leave your feedback, I don't care if you like them or not. Should I care? That's just my taste. Is yours better? :P Ok will stop, I think you got the point.

Yes, maybe you enjoy something just because it is "pleasing to hear". But why is it? Why the sounds or music 'pleasing to hear' is different for everyone? Even some people won't call music to the "pleasing to hear" music of others. So why there is people that enjoys some aspects of music and other people that love others? Why do some people can enjoy more of them and others less? Or why there is people that doesn't care about music at all while there is people that feels it with the deepest of soul?

Can't give a full reply. Not sure about the answer, but at least will try to explain the stuff I imagine affects in taste...

*****PREJUDICES*****

The first reason I can think about are the prejudices, which already makes you to take a negative or positive attitude. Again, as mentioned in the group's description, but not limited to:

And you may avoid other prejudices such as underground or commercial band/artist, if other people likes or not what you are listening, the things you approve or not in the live behind an artist, or even the lyrics message of the song itself.
For example other prejudice that comes now to my mind is a more traditional classification of music as for 'high class' or 'for the people' (Classic and Symphonic music played at music buildings, churches, some official events, etc and folk, rock, pop etc played at street, pubs, concerts etc). Hopefully this prejudice nowadays isn't that common.

Avoiding these prejudices may avoid to dislike lots of songs, artists, genres, or to close yourself into a genre against others. So you already get a more extensive taste.

But besides these 'surface prejudices'. What elements attached directly to the sound (to the music itself) there is in your ears or your brain that consider something as 'pleasing to hear'?

*****EMOTIONS*****

I think mainly due emotions. Yes, a piece of music is good for you. But why do you consider it? You listen it and your reaction is to feel good with it, so IMO the first reason is the way someone feels.

About “feel good”, I don't mean just to feel happy, in peace, or similar emotions. People may feel good with less”beautiful” emotions as sadness, fear, repulsion, etc. It may sound weird for some people, so here comes a fresh example:

Films. Yes, there is horror films, dramas, romantic ones, comedies, etc. Why? Just because there is people that prefer to feel fear, sadness, love, just get fun, or because people prefer to feel some way in a moment or with some people, other way in other, etc.

For example, me often enjoy sadness over other emotions, sometimes more melancholy or more mixed with love or energy of powerlessness etc. It is a so deep feel that makes me shudder a lot. Some tracks that express sadness really well:

- Itzhak Perlman - Schindler's List Theme
- Avien - Noumenon (Maridia2 Theme)
- Vanessa Mae - Solace
- Max Richter - Sarajevo ... The 3rd track on his Myspace, not the one playing when you enter.
- Arvo Pärt - Für Alina
- Muse - Endlessly
- Portishead - Roads

Then, am I an emo? No, in fact I don't consider myself being from a specific social group (maybe just a freak for most people :D )

If you try to understand the point of view of different people that consider themselves from some social group, will notice that most of them have some good arguments (well, remembered about a friend who is anti-ecological, so can say that maybe not all :P ). But likely will never understand them if you already take a negative attitude and have some prejudices against someone / some group, or just think your way to think is better so they are wrong. However don't consider myself from some social group just because I understand and respect their main arguments. Everyone have their own ideas and personality (or should) so I'm a bit skeptic about people who claims other people not being “true” from a group and them being so they follow more strict ideas, habits, wear exactly x clothes and listen only x music. Maybe they just do it to feel integrated.

So maybe I'm not so open minded because don't understand this. Returning to the example of emo: Why must they listen hardcore punk, emo, screamo, or similar music? Yes, this kind of music may be good to express some emotions but there is much more music that may also be good for this purpose, so why to close only to these? And about other aspects, for example, why must them cut the hair in that way? They stop feeling the same way if they shave the head?

And yes, I love to feel sad but I'm not depressed with it. I'm happy about how am I and love to smile, make other people laugh, rush moments, live in slow motion and much other emotions in each moment. Just try to enjoy each of them and often find something good. Do I appreciate so many things of life because I pretend to be better? Maybe, but not better than others. Just better person. Do someone pretend to be more healthy than other people when making exercise or just want to be a more healthy person? So, I'm just someone that loves all and so can enjoy any music? No, maybe this attitude helps, but there is lot of bad music as in life there is bad moments. Do all jokes makes fun just because they try to make fun? Of course not, some of them are so bad that will make you cry or feel sorry for who is telling :P In music I think that there is more failures than good pieces, but IMO, always something good can be done in any genre. Even with aspects that most people and experts would consider as defects. Check this example of disparity between different parts.

*****OTHER REASONS*****

All this is about emotions, however it may also depend (again including, but not limited to) on so diverse stuff as: not just the way someone feels but the way someone wants to feel, the culture, society and people around you used to some styles of music and ways to think (you will listen a wider range for some genre so more easy to get into, or will listen some genres other people around the globe will never do, or for example folk is different in each region), nostalgia with some previous experience, knowledge and less or more appreciation for creativity and effort of a work, the age, etc

About age, lot of stuff to talk about. Age affects not only because for example when you are younger often need to shout and be against "oppressors" (parents, adults, society) so these emotions are common and more people listen music as Punk while when you are older don't have that energy and just want to relax in peace (more quiet and mellow music)... or maybe when you are kid just want to show to other kids that you listen harder music than them to feel special so start with some commercial Metal that falls in your hands and with time end listenning Ultra-Super-Upper-Suicidal-Technical-Brutal-Black-Death-Doom-Metal... ...erm... -Core! ... I'm not saying that all people listening this kind of music are just old kids who yet want to show that they listen harder music than you. But some of them are :P
Age also affects in physical aspects as the ear which at about 20 years tolerates louder sounds. Other curious physical aspect is that with age, ears are unable to listen high pitched tones -I know this thanks to a weapon used by police in some towns here in Spain. In some places, when there is massive 'botellones' (alcohol parties in the street), neighbours are tired of all the night noise so they call the police but there is not enough cops to take control. Solution? Almost Ultrasonic sounds! Very high pitched and annoying for young people but not noticeable for adults. There is some controversy about this method because not all young people is at the alcohol parties, some of them are even sleeping in their homes and the sound is still annoying for them :P
Returning to topic! A proof about how age affects in taste is that hardly ever taste remains exactly the same for a whole life. Yes, this is also due other reasons. One of them is the fact that you have more experience listening music so there is more music to choose from.

Well, besides these “age changes”, physical differences may be innate too between different people. And other reasons that also maybe are innate (exaggerated way to explain it):

Why some people when falling with parachute from an airplane dies of a heart attack while other people feels almost nothing (heart beats ratio remains almost the same)? And why some people love to do it (jumping with parachute) while others won't do it because they don't like that emotion? This happens even if people in the second group is much more strong nerves than other in the first one.

To sum up, a sensation when falling is more or less present in different people. And some people hates it while others loves it. Why? This is more abstract :P

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As a conclusion of the answer to your question “How can some people enjoy any kind of music?”

I would say that it is due a mix of avoiding prejudices against other music genres etc, a wider appreciation of different aspects in music, emotions more attached to music by nature, not being afraid to feel in different ways and enjoying it, special love for the music by the sum of these reasons. And maybe more knowledge of the music genres you would consider as not enjoyable because while most people would move to other music genres, people considering themselves as being able to anjoy any kind of music maybe need to prove it, so keep listening until finding something, so not just the previous reasons but also a wider collection to choose from at these genres.

imzyklothym said: I’d say I like a lot of different kinds of music (even if my OMI is only 105). I like some progressive metal/rock, (melodic)death metal, black metal, sludge, doom metal, indie rock/pop, post-rock, drone, avant-garde and ambient. But I’d never say I like anything because I don’t. For instance I have never heard any ska song I liked.
And I am definitely not that kind of person who just says ‘I don’t like that’ without having listened to it. When you look at older journal I wrote you’ll see that I couldn't get into any post-rock, sludge and black metal once but then I found out that there are some really great bands…
In the same way the fact that there is people that can enjoy any kind of music, doesn't stand that everyone can enjoy them.

You found something good in your favorite genres and decided to know more about them. This is something good. If you enjoy that special thing so much, why listen other music genres? Is not better to know more about the ones you are enjoying so much?
But even taking into account this you got into some genres that couldn't at first:

Some people are content with that special thing at the genres they are used

Others enjoy music but are not content, maybe due couldn't find that special music so keep seeking (which at first doesn't seem reasonable, since if they didn't find it maybe believe not to like the music much), or maybe they found it but think that can find something so good as what they already found. A way to think so well summarized by user bjunior71:

bjunior71 said:
Experiment all extract the good.
Something like a bee flying from flower to flower taking the appreciated pollen of each.

And other people really don't care about music so they say to like one kind of music or other to be part of a friends group or a social group. Or maybe they like it but these interests are more important for them than music.

There is also people that will prefer some elements of music beyond the sound such as the way to dance or the lyrics of a song (ideology, poetry, etc)

This is not an accurate classification so there is always people who are in several of these groups or are difficult to put in a group following this classification.

For example, someone who only listens Black Metal to integrate in a group but really don't like that kind of music may also be someone that really enjoys music and hides to listen Maria Carey :P

Another example is someone who is closed in a genre and similar genres but some day by chance listens a completly different kind of music so closes now to these 2 different kinds of music or opens to listen new genres.

Or there may be also people in the “like a bee” group that as hard as they try to find something enjoyable in certain genres, they can't (not me :D )

Each one who does a music research at so diverse music genres, have his/her own reasons. Mines are:

1- Why not, to prove myself that can enjoy any kind of music.
2- Enjoy the music in all its shapes. If you love the music, why to close in few genres knowing that there is great music here and there?
3- Power up the senses at certain moments without use of drugs. Music is more healthy :D
4- And because personally often get tired when listenning same kind of music all time (track after track). Maybe that's the reason because artists such as Zap Mama and The Flashbulb are in top of my charts (a part of their great music and extent discography). Tracks of a same album are so diverse! In this way (for me) is much more pleasant to listen a whole album of the same band/artist. This doesn't mean that I'm listening different music all the time. Sometimes I start the slow-coustic tag radiostation and sit just to do nothing else than rest quiet and listen. Love those moments, and listening a completly different track as a Brutal Death Metal or a Hardcore Techno one would kill the beautiful moment.
The way I am! Yeah, I love diversity. But I'm so diverse that not always love diversity :D
And also need to listen new stuff, not just because I don't like the found stuff to date, but because I don't want to get tired about the one I like. If you listen the same track lots and lots of times, may not happen that you end tired about it?

I agree that some people not interested in music says that they like “a bit of everything” because don't know what to say when are asked, or to give a good impression with others (will look as a freak if says that don't like music at all), or even because if says that enjoys Hip-Hop, other people would glare and point with the finger while making fun of her/him :P But I see equal probable that people not interested in music say they like certain music style to keep integrated in a group or to get closer to the people they want (chicks! ... j/k :P )

And what makes no much sense is to say that people not interested in music saying “I like a bit of everything” are the same ones who are part of People who can enjoy ANY kind of music. A group in a music community. With active members of last.fm listening an average of 49.26 tracks each day (more than your 41 track average), several members being suscribers and even some musicians with music uploaded here to Last.fm. If music is something that we don't really care about, why are we here?

So...

imzyklothym said:
At the end just some information you may wonder about: Why did I write about this topic.
There were two inducements.

- The first one is, that I read the magazine my age-group at school printed because we graduated from school. There is one article about each graduate that starts with a form containing amongst others the question for one’s favourite music. I guess it was two third who wrote down ‘everything’, ‘a bit of everything’, ‘varies so actually everything’ and so on.
As I know these people I am sure that none of them has ever heard the term ‘sludge’ and ‘drone’ maybe ‘post-rock’ as well, not to mention that they haven’t listened to…
They probably listen to radio and think it gives them a survey of ‘everything’...

You can't generalize in that way. Just because there is people around you that say “I like a bit of everything” because (you think) they only listen different genres in common radio, doesn't mean that all people in my group or all who feels in the same way only listen common radio.

About your term examples, I know all them. As you can see, drone was one of the “recommendations for x genre” topics before your journal. And, do you give them as examples of rare terms or as “unenjoyable” music? IMO they seem good examples neither in one case or the other. In case of post-rock, for me it is a really interesting genre and there is some tracks in my favorites playlist long before your journal.

I also don't think members in the group have no taste. The forum is open to give recommendations for any genre, and some members as Drone_bitch, H0NKYM4G00, and TowerU are active giving them. Thanks guys! This implies liking the artists/bands they recommend, at least more than others which would not recommend, so there is taste here. And if you measure the 'I care about music factor' depending in the journals written, take a look to the time consuming music research of members like Babs_05 and Joffi222.

imzyklothym said: Another reason is that I simply don’t know every genre so how to say I like it?
Do these people saying they like any kind of music actually want to tell me they know every genre? I can’t believe that this is true…

There is something else I want to mention:
Imo there was way too few time to actually discover as much music of one genre if I liked everything.
I’ll take progressive rock/metal as an example: I have known these genres for about two years and I still feel I haven’t got to know enough of this kind of music. How could I have gotten to know what I know now if I tried to discover more about another 100 genres?
Even though I do not listen to anything I don’t get through my ‘to listen to’-list of new bands, because I often just want to listen to a band I’ve known for quite a long time and like a lot.
And don’t tell me that I may be one who just doesn't take enough time for listening to music… it just needs a lot of time savouring one band/genre!
How do you (people who tell about themselves that they listen to everything) do this?
When you make the favorite generes list, obviously you make it from the ones you already listened. Sure you like more but don't know because didn't discover them yet. In the same way, when we say that “can enjoy any kind of music” we base this in the genres heard previously. Of course, we are not saying that listened all music in this universe. Nobody will ever do.

But on the other hand can assume to like any genres even if not have heard all sub-sub genres in the world. As Babs_05 already posted in your journal:

Babs_05 said:
Bear in mind, there really aren't that many genres. There are a hundreds of sub-genres, sub-sub genres, etc, but if you know your music history and know the main ones, you can form an opinion on the hybrids.

***************

imzyklothym said:
I feel like there were some or may be even many people who think something could be wrong about not being able to like everything and so they pretend/try to like everything.
But I don’t think there is any need to like every genre or that people who do are better than the others.

Many people? If you talk about the group members, we are under 100 :D So nothing to be worried about ;)

No, seriously. There is nothing wrong about not being able to like everything. As I mentioned above, if you found something special in some genres, then is ok to stay with it. IMO, what is wrong is for example to say “I don't like x music genre” after listen only a track or a few tracks of it. Why can't you give an opinion about a whole music genre in that case? Because in any music genre there is always bad artists, failed tracks,... erm crap to sum up. So what about if you only listened the crappy stuff? Furthermore, the stuff you always find first about a genre you are not into is the more mainstream one (the one showing first at search engines, the one playing more at different radio-stations about that genre, etc). And mainstream stuff is not always the best one...

*Note: I'm not saying that all the mainstream stuff is bad, which is other common prejudice. But often, mainstream stuff isn't the best one to represent a kind of music. For example most people into Volksmusik don't like the mainstream one (the one playing at German TVs channels about it) which "became too commercial and far from traditional Volksmusik". Other reason is that mainstream is the stuff you quick get tired about because is playing here and there all the time. Although of course there is amazing mainstream stuff which I love as Spice Girls - Viva Forever :D
I give this example because was the only track at both my favorite playlist and the hate playlist of Tsatthoggua (he no longer have this playlist, and I lost more than half of my playlist due 200 tracks cut :/ ). So this is also a good proof that shows each one is in a different way, maybe you listened stuff that consider “shit” but someone else loves that shit. Tastes. So what sense makes people being anti-x genre? That's just people with different taste.

Well, returning to the “giving opinion about a genre when listening few tracks” issue, why I'm talking about it? Because you say at an older journal that couldn't get into post-rock, sludge, and black metal once but later yes. At first didn't like these genres but later found some really great bands... Couldn't happen the same with the ska genre? I mean that maybe you don't like the ska you listened up to date but in a future do it (discover some enjoyable ska song). And don't tell me that you listened all the ska in the world because that's not possible! Even if we imagine that you listened all ska songs in the world sure you can dislike all them. This is not a group saying “hey, everyone can enjoy any kind of music if listen all what a genre can offer and do it without prejudices”. Again everyone is different and of course there is nothing wrong about it. What a bored world if everybody would be equal and think in the same way... Everyone wearing the same clothes, watching the same rubbish on TV, reading the same books,... and listening the same music!

In my case, when I was kid, I first though that didn't like Country music after listening some bored country music in the radio. But of course changed my mind after listening some beautiful and mellow Country songs or more catchy ones. Later I though that never could get into "Música Máquina" - in spanish it is a way to talk about repetitive and hard electronic music as Hardcore Techno, Trance and similar played at discos as Masia or at the "Tuning cars of Maquinetos" :P - But as it was common music here (very common at late 90s), a day listened a mix session and hey, that was not so bad! Wanted to know more about it and discovered great stuff. This happened with several music genres more (Reggaeton, Black metal, etc) and always found loved stuff after a deep research or a not so deep one :)

imzyklothym said:
I feel like there were some or may be even many people who think something could be wrong about not being able to like everything and so they pretend/try to like everything.
But I don’t think there is any need to like every genre or that people who do are better than the others.
Hehe, yes quoted again to say that on the other hand and after read your journal and the comments, maybe some people feels that there were some or may be even many people who think something could be wrong about ~~not~~ being able to like everything and so they pretend/try not to like everything. :P

Remember that was not me who came to a group and said something as:

imzyklothym said:
I think a lot of people just pretend to like any music genre because they think they are better than others then...
Don't blame us of “feel superior” just because we enjoy any kind of music but you don't...
Anything you do, there is always someone who will do it better. Even if you are the best one in the world, with time there will be someone better than you. So, to me, makes no sense to do something just to “feel better than the others”. Makes no more sense other reasons? Such as doing something just because you like it?

And as you can see, the description of my group starts with:

Please, take a moment and type 'Anti' in the groups search tool here at LastFM. Yes, you will find over 700 Anti groups :( Too much hate on internet...

...

Well, this group may be considered as an Anti-anti by people in those groups, but that's not the point. We don't show the hate to anything. It is more like a 'Love for music in general' group.
Sure there is people who is against some music genres for whatever reason. But people who don't feel ok with people who can appreciate all them? :/ :P

There is a saying in spanish “La música nos une” that means “music unites us”. Unfortunatelly often music seems to separate more than unite. Of course there is tastes and each one will love one thing or other. Whatever you listen there is always someone that hates it. Or even if you respect any kind of music there is people that will feel uncomfortable and will say that you have no taste or that you feel superior :(

For all folks that think in the same way, check this thread. They are some of the answers I collected from a discussion here at the OMI group.

And there is a beautiful forum in the group where you can post your “not enjoyable genre” (or genres you want to know better etc). Anyone (members and not members) can post tracks they enjoyed in that genre so maybe between all recommendations you find something enjoyable ;)

After writting the journal I hope that at least now you can trust that there is people who REALLY can enjoy ANY kind of music :)

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